Craig: It does if the first premise [of the Kalam Cosmological Argument] is true: that whatever begins to exist has a cause. It logically follows. Wolpert: Yeah, but the cause doesn't have to be God. Craig: Well, remember I gave an argument for thinking that this cause is timeless, spaceless, immaterial, enormously powerful, and personal. Wolpert: I think it is a computer. Craig: Well, computers are designed by people. Wolpert: No, no. This is a self-designing computer. Craig: Ah ha. Wolpert: Timeless! John Humphrys (moderator): Timeless! Craig: Well, that's a contradiction in terms. Wolpert: Why? What is contradictory about it? Craig: A computer has to function. It takes time. Wolpert: Oh no, this is a special computer. Craig: Yeah, but it has to be logically coherent. Wolpert: Oh, it is logically coherent. Craig: Yes, you have to be logically coherent. Wolpert: Oh no, this computer is amazing! Craig: No. Besides, it would have to be, as I said, a personal being, and— Wolpert: No. Craig: A computer is a physical object. Wolpert: Not this computer, oh no! Craig: Okay, see, what you are doing is you are actually, what you are calling a computer, is really God. A non-physical, non- … it is just another word if you rob it of all the attributes that make it a computer. Humphrys: Surely, Gates is God. [Craig, Wolpert, Humphrys and the audience laugh] Humphrys: Come on, go on. Craig vs. Lewis Wolpert debate at Westminster Hall, January 2009